Neocon 'Father' Francis Fukiyama Endorses Barack Obama

This news either falls under the category of "politics makes strange bedfellows," "the Obama coalition is a mighty, broad coalition that will destroy McCain in November," or "I must have dosed my cornflakes this morning with angeldust and what I just read MUST be the product of my hallucinating mind."
http://au.news.yahoo.com/080527/21/170xi .html

Likely the real answer is a combination of the above statements.  Francis Fukuyama, the author of The End of History and one of the architects of post-Cold War neoconservatism that brought us the Project for the New American Century and the saber-rattling that produced the Iraq War, has come out and voiced support for Barack Obama to become President.

Australian journalist Eleanor Hall interviewed Fukuyama about the American presidential campaign when the Johns Hopkins professor visited Sydney.

ELEANOR HALL: So which president do you think would be the best placed to handle these challenges? Would it be president McCain, president Obama or a president Clinton?

FRANCIS FUKUYAMA: Well, it is a little bit difficult. In my own thinking since I have to vote in this next election, I personally actually don't want to see a Republican re-elected because I have a general view of the way democratic processes should work and if your party is responsible for a big policy failure, you shouldn't be rewarded by being re-elected.

I think of all the Republicans, McCain in many ways is the most attractive but he is still is too, you know, he comes from the school that places too much reliance on hard military power as a means of spreading American influence.

To be fair to Fukuyama, he has -- over the past couple of years as public opposition to the war has grown to an overwhelming consensus -- become a critic of how the Iraq War was waged.  Fukuyama's opposition to a reliance solely on "hard military power" goes hand in hand with his call to oppose torture and close Guantanamo Bay (which he repeats elsewhere in this interview).  In that context, criticizing McCain for continuing what Fukuyama calls a failed policy is not a surprise.  Now, though, one of the architects of neoconservative philosophy has publicly refused to support the candidate whose foreign policy relies upon a neoconservative perspective.  With McCain disqualified, Fukuyama turns to the two candidates who have not yet conceded in the Democratic nomination battle.

I think in many ways, Hillary Clinton represents both the good and the bad things of the 1990s and there is something in the style of the Clintons that never really appealed to me and so I think of all the three, Obama probably has the greatest promise of delivering a different kind of politics.

ELEANOR HALL: That is a big shift for you, isn't it? To go from a registered Republican voter to an Obama supporter.

FRANCIS FUKUYAMA: Yeah, but I think a number of people are doing that this year because I think the world is different at this juncture and we need a different foreign policy and there is this larger question about in American politics, I do think that we are at the end of a long generational cycle that began with Reagan's election back in 1980 and I think unless you have a degree of competition and alternation in power, certain ideas and habits are going to get too entrenched.

Fukuyama goes on to give his view of what American foreign policy under Obama might look like, and is somewhat optimistic about it.  This is truly remarkable.  After all, Obama owes his success in large part to being a firm opponent since 2002 of what he called "dumb wars" and specifically the war in Iraq.  Then again, Fukuyama may appreciate that Obama has loudly denounced the use of torture, and that Obama -- more than either Clinton or McCain -- supports making diplomatic talks a priority over sabre-rattling.  Placed in the perspective of Fukuyama's comments over the past couple of years, his support for Obama makes more sense.

But this endorsement shows how much has shifted in American politics over the past four years.  One of the fathers of neoconservative foreign policy now backs the candidate who fiercely denounces what neoconservativism has wrought, and whose foreign policy team is dominated by those who opposed the Iraq War at the start.  Yet that is where we stand just five months before the American people decide who will succeed George W. Bush as the person who shapes American foreign policy.

If John McCain has lost Francis Fukuyama, who's next?  Richard Perle?  Richard Cheney?  

Change is coming.  And not a moment too soon.



Display:


Re: Neocon 'Father' Francis Fukiyama Endorses Bara (none / 0)

Fukuyama has renounced neoconservatism
as practiced by this administration. He did so quite awhile ago in his book "America at the Crossroads."
Obama/Warner 2008
by MissVA on Tue May 27, 2008 at 02:10:10 PM EST

rat leaving a sinking ship (none / 0)

This is part of Fukiyama's attempt to deny responsibility for the damage he did and stay relevant. No one should listen to this worm. (apology to real worms)


by Alice Marshall on Tue May 27, 2008 at 02:40:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

you should change the title (none / 0)

to Ex-Neocon.  

He's just not a neocon anymore.


Obama leads the popular vote too
by kellogg on Tue May 27, 2008 at 03:54:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Francis Fukiyama also denounced what (none / 0)

neocons have become. So that's not too surprising since John McSame wants to keep the neocon movement going.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Tue May 27, 2008 at 02:11:03 PM EST

Re: Francis Fukiyama also denounced what (2.00 / 1)

I dont care, what a despicable man.

I have a GREAT documentary called the Power of Nightmares.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_o f_Nightmares

It cronicles the transparent parallels between the modern Islamic Fundamentalism and Neocon movements.

They are neck in neck on so many things.

And whats funny is the NeoCon movement has resulted in far more blood.


http://www.truepat.org/
by CrushTheGOP2008 on Tue May 27, 2008 at 02:14:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Francis Fukiyama also denounced what (none / 0)

Neocons are certainly despicable. Mos def.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Tue May 27, 2008 at 02:16:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Francis Fukiyama also denounced what (2.00 / 1)

I am implore you to watch that documentary, or read it's premise.

As soon as activists start to see Neocons for what they, enemies of the state and a danger to national security and world peace, then they will continue to muck up the country and global community we all work so hard for.


http://www.truepat.org/
by CrushTheGOP2008 on Tue May 27, 2008 at 02:18:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Francis Fukiyama also denounced what (none / 0)

I've always known that about them but I do enjoy a good documentary and will check it out if I can.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Tue May 27, 2008 at 02:25:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Francis Fukiyama also denounced what (none / 0)

Awesome, I hope you are not younger than me (Im 29)

I believe the history found in this docu is PROFOUND.

It was one of those that ended with my mouth wide open and blood boiling.


http://www.truepat.org/
by CrushTheGOP2008 on Tue May 27, 2008 at 02:28:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Francis Fukiyama also denounced what (none / 0)

I'm 40. I've been aware of the neocons, some of whom have roots in my area (Chicago), for some time.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Tue May 27, 2008 at 02:29:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Francis Fukiyama also denounced what (none / 0)

Have you seen Adam Curtis's other documentary, "The Century of the Self"? I can't recommend it highly enough -- you'll never look at politics, or advertising, the same after you watch it. The first episode can be viewed here:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid= 8953172273825999151

Btw, part 4 of the documentary (it has 4 one-hour parts) details the Clinton and Blair campaigns of the 1990s. Very harsh on Mark Penn, while being at least partially sympathetic to the Clintons and the difficulties the Clinton administration encountered in attempting to change the direction of the country after the Reagan-Bush years.


Fortune strums a mournful tune for those whose campaigns peak too soon. --Bored of the Rings
by Inky on Tue May 27, 2008 at 02:58:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Neocon 'Father' Francis Fukiyama Endorses Bara (none / 0)

Awesomeness. McCain's chief something or other left because he was facing Obama.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Tue May 27, 2008 at 02:14:10 PM EST

Re: Neocon 'Father' Francis Fukiyama Endorses Bara (none / 0)

RG, love ya man but that is

A- OT for this diary
B- so last week :)
C- was a long time coming.

I give that turncoat (used to be Dem strategist) props.

He said the moment it appeared McCain was the nominee that he would go against Obama.

Then right after OBama clinched the Delegates he announced he would be to his word and resign.

Democrat, Republican, RINO, DINO, turncoat, loser, whatever this man has honor.

It may be honor amongst thieves but I got to give to him.

Maybe the only Republican strategist I would share my water with while lost in a desert.


http://www.truepat.org/
by CrushTheGOP2008 on Tue May 27, 2008 at 02:17:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yucky (none / 0)

denounce and reject.


by linc on Tue May 27, 2008 at 02:18:55 PM EST

He's not been a neocon for awhile (none / 0)

Took no time for the Obama haters to capitalize on that one.  


Obama leads the popular vote too
by kellogg on Tue May 27, 2008 at 03:55:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yucky (none / 0)

Fukuyama is someone I read in school.  He's brilliant, and he was very very wrong.  He's admitted as much, and expressed contrition.

Forgive him, please.  Or at least try.  And I would have said that before he did this interview.  I abhor the Neocons, and part of me wishes to condemn them to the fiery pits of Hell, but Fukuyama is intelltectually honest, and has openly admitted his mistakes.

Most of the others have not.  He has a conscience, apparently, and a willingness to admit that his ideas just did not work.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Tue May 27, 2008 at 04:24:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Fukuyama is either an opportunist... (none / 0)

Or tremendously short-sighted.  He may have renounced neoconservatism after seeing its effects as implemented by President Bush, but he should have seen (as many of us on the left saw) that the desperate position we are in today was always going to be an inevitable consequence of the neoconservative world-view.

Either he was unable to look far enough forward to predict the disastrous effects of his own poisonous ideology, or he simply sees the way the wind is blowing and is renouncing neoconservatism now only because it is no longer popular.

Fukuyama (and Bill Kristol and all the other right-wing apologists) will get my forgiveness and respect the day they pronounce to the world, "we were wrong, our judgment was fatally flawed, and we recognize we can never again be trusted as commentators or rational thinkers in the realm of politics.  We're becoming farmers."

But Obama can't really control who endorses him.  So oh well.  Even a broken watch is right twice a day, and this must be one of Fukuyama's accidental right-nesses.


Proud member of the Wikipedia Generation of American politics
by BishopRook on Tue May 27, 2008 at 02:20:24 PM EST

Re: Fukuyama is either an opportunist... (none / 0)

"Fukuyama (and Bill Kristol and all the other right-wing apologists) will get my forgiveness and respect the day they pronounce to the world, "we were wrong, our judgment was fatally flawed, and we recognize we can never again be trusted as commentators or rational thinkers in the realm of politics.  We're becoming farmers.""

I will accept it when they apologize to our soldiers and tax payers, for stealing their lives and livelihoods.

Please watch this video, its of the criminal Frum getting crushed by a UK MP.

The day is close when our politicians eviscerate this war criminals in the same fashion.

If you like this vid, please share as I only caught via our wonderful blogosphere:


http://www.truepat.org/
by CrushTheGOP2008 on Tue May 27, 2008 at 02:24:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fukuyama is either an opportunist... (2.00 / 1)

Galloway is a briliant framer.

He needs to move here !


http://www.truepat.org/
by CrushTheGOP2008 on Tue May 27, 2008 at 02:29:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Fukuyama and Obama: American Exceptionalism (2.00 / 1)

I think the reason for Fukuyama's endorsement is pretty simple. He knows that we cannot rely mostly on hard power and succeed, so he cannot support McCain, but he prefers Obama's American Exceptionalism to Clinton's liberal multilateralism.  Shaun Appleby examined Obama's American Exceptionalist approach here last year, it is mostly aligned with neoconservative principles. Even rhetorically Fukuyama's end of history is aligned with Obama's transformational post-partisanship, and, of course, Fukuyama, Obama and neoconservatism grew out of the intellectual cradle of the University of Chicago.


by souvarine on Tue May 27, 2008 at 02:22:25 PM EST

this comment shows ignorance of Fukuyama (none / 0)

have you even read the end of history?  If you had you wouldn't make such silly claims.


by JJE on Tue May 27, 2008 at 02:29:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: this comment shows ignorance of Fukuyama (none / 0)

Why yes, I have, I have my copy right here, which I bought and read in 1993. I've also read the Hegel it is largely a meditation on.

Now, I may be completely misinterpreting Fukuyama, but if so it is out of stupidity rather than ignorance.


by souvarine on Tue May 27, 2008 at 02:40:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

then you know that to compare the end of history (none / 0)

to "the end of partisanship" (words never spoken by Obama, afaik) is silly.  As is pretending that the U of C somehow turns anyone who goes there into a neocon.


by JJE on Tue May 27, 2008 at 02:44:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: then you know that to compare the end of histo (none / 0)

Perhaps, but Obama's argument that he can transcend partisanship is a Hegelian resolution to a dialectic. And Fukuyama's liberal democracies are a transcendent resolution to the dialectic at the level of nation states.

Obama's foreign policy was my original reason for preferring Edwards and then Clinton. He places too much emphasis on the ability of America to transform the world, I would be interested to understand how his approach to foreign policy is different from neoconservatism, at least as described by Fukuyama. Remember that Fukuyama was one of the first neoconservatives to turn against the Iraq war, soon after we began the occupation.


by souvarine on Tue May 27, 2008 at 03:03:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

again, Obama has not claimed he can (none / 0)

transcend partisanship.  He has claimed he can move the discourse away from partisan bickering, but this claim is one made by almost any candidate running and "outsider" campaign.

I don't think the Fukuyama analogy can bear the weight you're placing on it.

You're also reading a bit further into Obama's American exceptionalism line than is justified.  He is clearly talking about soft power, which diverges drastically from the neocon view of an America that transforms the world through the use of force and other coercive measures to eliminate tyrannical regimes.

Obama's American exceptionalism is little more than standard liberal soft-power boilerplate.  I bet if you asked Hillary Clinton if she believed in this watered-down American exceptionalism she would say "yes".


by JJE on Tue May 27, 2008 at 03:16:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: then you know that to compare the end of histo (none / 0)

I've enjoyed following this conversation, and thought I might jump in.

Regarding the contrast of Obama's Exceptionalism and Clinton's more traditionally liberal approach, I wouldn't go quite so far to distinguish the two.  Exceptionalism is broad enough that the right President could view liberal institutionalism as a means by which to exert American influence.  The two needn't be mutually exclusive.

Also, having perused your comments in Shaun's diary, your points about the dangers of a President with a belief that we have a right to intervene are certainly well taken.  And we need look no further than the current occupant of the Oval Office to see those dangers in  action.  But a purely institutionalist approach also carries with it the danger of inaction, and will continue to do so as long as there are such varied interests represented on the Security Council.  


No way. No how. No McCain.
by freedom78 on Tue May 27, 2008 at 03:56:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: then you know that to compare the end (none / 0)

Clinton subscribes to the notion of America as "the indispensable nation", which carries some exceptionalist baggage. But Albright's formulation is distinct from American Exceptionalism because it contains other nations. America is not sufficient for international action, it is necessary for international action. Clinton would act internationally when necessary, but she would be reluctant to act without real international support.

By my reading of what Obama has said he would be less patient with working through international institutions.


by souvarine on Tue May 27, 2008 at 04:25:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: then you know that to compare the end (none / 0)

And, of course, we're not dealing with black and white, here, and I'd agree that the US is, at the least, necessary for successful international processes.  But while I don't think the participation of any other state is quite so necessary, the veto power makes China and Russia necessary, as well, at least so far as they're willing to let action proceed without being involved.

I've no doubt that Obama would have a lot more respect for the international processes than Bush did.  Bush sees the UN as little more than a way to add some legitimacy to his actions and, if they don't go along, it's because the UN is weak and itself illegitimate.  But there is a point to be made about an institution that is almost designed to prevent action, by putting veto powers in the hands of states that often have such different interests (or, often, simply want to check the power of the other).  While action with a pure international mandate is always preferable, I'd argue that it cannot be the ONLY source of action.  

Believe me.  If I thought Obama would be as reckless in his belief in a right to action as Bush has been, he would not have gotten my vote.  But the question rises: what do we do about the NEXT Rwanda, when the UN drags its feet?  

But there is a good point to be made about moving from a more realist conception of international action, wherein states have the ability to act on their interests in accordance with their level of power and the willingness of more powerful states to let such action take place, to one wherein we operate under a pure liberal, collective security arrangement.  That point is that SOME state has to "blink" first.  And I doubt very much that it will be China or Russia, so if we are to succeed in creating a more peaceful world based on collective security, we'll have to be willing to allow some choices to be voted down and to accede to that will.  If the issues that arise are relatively minor, it will be fairly easy to give the process some legitimacy.  If they are major, I would assume that a gridlocked process would eventually give way to action.    


No way. No how. No McCain.
by freedom78 on Tue May 27, 2008 at 04:51:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fukuyama and Obama: American Exceptionalism (none / 0)

I'm trying not to choke on the irony of someone suggesting that Obama represents "American exceptionalism" and Clinton represents "liberal multilateralism," when Obama suggests talking to enemy leaders without preconditions while Clinton tells Iran we just may "obliterate" them.

One of those is a unilateral, militaristic approach to foreign policy, along the same vein as the neoconservative movement.  The other is an approach that is not afraid of diplomacy and multilateralism.

Before anyone jumps on me for misrepresenting the quote or putting it out of context, yes, Clinton said we would "obliterate" Iran only in the hypothetical instance that they attacked Israel with nuclear weapons first.  But it shows a severe lack of judgment that Senator Clinton allowed herself to be drawn into destructive saber-rattling over a hypothetical that all our best intelligence suggests is nowhere near plausible.  And the saber-rattling itself is what gives insight into the unilateral, militaristic world-view I mentioned.


Proud member of the Wikipedia Generation of American politics
by BishopRook on Tue May 27, 2008 at 03:06:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fukuyama and Obama: American Exceptionalism (none / 0)

Well, with the approach of the general election Obama is backing off talks with Iran without preconditions, and as you concede Obama also supports deterrence to protect Israel. Obama is neither a pacifist nor a militarist, but the problem with his view of America and the world is that it can justify unilateral action. Clinton's view only permits unilateral action in extremis.


by souvarine on Tue May 27, 2008 at 03:56:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fukuyama and Obama: American Exceptionalism (none / 0)

That's nothing but semantic parsing.  Obama has maintained since the question came up in the YouTube debate, and the first tempest in a teapot it caused, that "no preconditions" does not mean he's going to simply show up on Ahmadinejad's doorstep with cookies and offer to have a chat.  Every diplomatic meeting between heads of state requires "preparations."  It's substantive preconditions that he will not require before a meeting.

Further, Obama was quite clear in the link you yourself provided that his "view of America" is about providing leadership through example, not through force.


Proud member of the Wikipedia Generation of American politics
by BishopRook on Tue May 27, 2008 at 05:20:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fukuyama and Obama: American Exceptionalism (none / 0)

Except it is Obama himself who describes his own views as embodying "American Exceptionalism" -- though he redefines it in certain ways.


by frankly0 on Tue May 27, 2008 at 03:57:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fukuyama and Obama: American Exceptionalism (none / 0)

Saying that one "believes in American Exceptionalism" and saying that one's views embody it are two very different things, but I'll give you that.

One person's American Exceptionalism is another person's patriotism--and you can bet that if Obama didn't subscribe to American Exceptionalism, he'd be roundly decried as lacking patriotism, both here and in the media at large.

American Exceptionalism, in and of itself, is not dangerous.  Quite to the contrary, I want a leader who fervently believes in America's ability to lead the world by positive example.  It's when combined with unilateralism, militarism, and imperialism when it becomes dangerous.


Proud member of the Wikipedia Generation of American politics
by BishopRook on Tue May 27, 2008 at 05:13:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fukuyama and Obama: American Exceptionalism (none / 0)

Obama has made some uncomfortable statements.  He called America the "last great hope of the world."


John McCain isn't evil. He's just wrong about a lot of things. Vote Obama!
by proseandpromise on Tue May 27, 2008 at 03:59:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fukuyama and Obama: American Exceptionalism (none / 0)

Got a source?  I've never heard that.  The closest I've heard to that phrasing, involving Obama, is Louis Farrakhan calling him that.  But I put little stock in anything Louis Farrakhan says, as does Obama.


Proud member of the Wikipedia Generation of American politics
by BishopRook on Tue May 27, 2008 at 05:08:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fukuyama and Obama: American Exceptionalism (none / 0)

It's from an interview on Letterman (April 9, 2007).  I was going off the top of my head and got the quote slightly wrong.  He said America was the "last best hope on earth."

Documented in this blog http://themorenopost.blogspot.com/2007/0 4/obama-on-letterman.html and in the book Jesus for President, where I initially read it.


John McCain isn't evil. He's just wrong about a lot of things. Vote Obama!
by proseandpromise on Tue May 27, 2008 at 05:14:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fukuyama and Obama: American Exceptionalism (none / 0)

That is a bit uncomfortable, yes.  I'll search for the context and hope it's better in it.


Proud member of the Wikipedia Generation of American politics
by BishopRook on Tue May 27, 2008 at 05:41:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fukuyama and Obama: American Exceptionalism (2.00 / 1)

As Shaun's diary makes clear, the type of exceptionalism defended by Obama is simply the universality of certain constitutional/liberal principles. To narrowly conclude that this aligns him with neoconservatism is unhelpful and rhetorically deceptive. The large majority of liberal political philosophers would defend a similar universality of liberal democratic principles. That is to say, you don't have to be a neocon to argue that everyone--regardless of nationality or culture--deserves equal protection under the law and respect for basic rights (specifically, respect for autonomy).

The important issues surround how the U.S. (or other instutitions interested in promoting liberal democratic ideals) responds to abuses by other states and organization. The solution involves a variety of moral and prudential considerations, and even those who share a set of basic ideals are not thereby committed to agreement on how to address non-ideal scenarios.

To be sure, everyone agrees that murder should be prohibited and prevented by the state, however there is plenty of reasonable disagreement regarding how the state should deal with those who murder. The interesting issues surround moral limitations in connection with the permissibility of punishment, emperical data on the efficacy of deterrent measures, the allocation of resources given other state objectives, etc.

But, just as it would be unhelpful to say that I'm aligned with George Bush because I agree with him that murder is wrong--everywhere and always--it is equally unhelpful to say that Obama is aligned with neocons because he believes that the U.S.'s founding principles are universally applicable in some sense.


by DPW on Tue May 27, 2008 at 03:44:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fukuyama and Obama: American Exceptionalism (none / 0)

The important thing that both neoconservatism and Obama's "American exceptionalism" have in common is that notion that everybody can and should come around to our own notions of democracy and rights, etc.

This strikes me as a fairly delusional point of view. I can see no reason to believe that many, many governments and societies will bear no important resemblance to our own for many, many generations to come.

I should think we have to build our foreign policy around realities and not fantasies.


by frankly0 on Tue May 27, 2008 at 04:02:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fukuyama and Obama: American Exceptionalism (none / 0)

"The important thing that both neoconservatism and Obama's "American exceptionalism" have in common is that notion that everybody can and should come around to our own notions of democracy and rights, etc."

Perhaps, but that's the baby. The bathwater that must be thrown out is the neoconservatives' use of unilateral war and torture in order to pursue their objectives.

It'd be a great tragedy if in rejecting neoconservatism, we ended up rejecting the universality of human rights as well.


by Aris Katsaris on Tue May 27, 2008 at 04:12:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fukuyama and Obama: American Exceptionalism (none / 0)

The important thing that both neoconservatism and Obama's "American exceptionalism" have in common is that notion that everybody can and should come around to our own notions of democracy and rights, etc.

Just to be clear, what is the alternative view that you prefer? Judging from the other remarks in your comment, it appears that your primary problem with such exceptionalism is practicability. That is, you find it highly unlikely that certain parts of the world will be persuaded--through whatever means--to change in the direction of liberal democracy. I agree with this, actually, but I don't think this skepticism is inconsistent with the fact that other countries/cultures "can and should" institute more liberal democratic political systems.

Unless you're prepared to argue that freedom of expression, equality for women, religious freedom, and procedural due process are just American conventions rather than criteria for political legitimacy everywhere, then I don't think you actually disagree with the basic idea. When citizens in other parts of the world are oppressed by their gov't and subjected to illegitimate political control, I'm not willing to excuse it on relativistic/subjectivistic grounds. No, I think their government (and all those who freely support it) is fucking immoral.

However, I'm under no illusions regarding our ability to remedy the problem. There are myriad cultural and institutional barriers, to be sure. But, I think we are obligated to lead efforts to improve matters, despite these difficulties. We certainly have to approach these challenges carefully and prudentially. But, if the alternative is just ignoring government abuse in foreign lands, then count me out.


by DPW on Tue May 27, 2008 at 04:36:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fukuyama and Obama: American Exceptionalism (none / 0)

"your primary problem with such exceptionalism is practicability"

Really, you completely misunderstand the point.

If, as I have said, it is true that many societies will never be like ours for many generations, due to cultural differences, then it makes no sense for us to build our foreign policies around the assumption that they will change in anything like the close future. We can do things to encourage them to back off their worst abuses of rights, perhaps, but that is probably about the extent of what we can expect.

Iraq would be a good case in point. I simply don't expect the Shiites and the Sunnis to give up their respective religious views without a good number of generations passing. Inherent to their religious views are beliefs that we find abhorrent, and may indeed be objectively abhorrent. Yet I don't expect them to change those views. I also don't expect their hostilities to go away without a good number of generations passing, though perhaps they can be ameliorated. I don't think it's in any way productive -- indeed it is probably counterproductive -- to lecture them about what "good" behavior in today's civilized world is considered to be. Again, we may persuade them to give up some of their worst excesses given the right carrots and sticks -- but that's probably the end of what we can do.

What we are obliged to do in general is to acknowledge the differences of many countries from ours, and work around those differences.

I don't like any foreign policy, be it that of the neocons, or the similar policy of Obama's, that presumes some form of persuasion, military or other, will simply transform these other societies into something we consider acceptable. Just as military intervention can easily backfire, so also can moralizing intervention (which seems to be Obama's preferred technique).

And even if the society we might envision for them, modeled after our own, is, in some absolute sense, more "just" and civilized and rational, it simply doesn't matter. Our foreign policy must in the end work with the realities and not the fantasies of what can be made to happen in other countries.


by frankly0 on Tue May 27, 2008 at 06:35:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fukuyama and Obama: American Exceptionalism (none / 0)

It is more than simply the universality of certain liberal principles, it is also that as an exemplar of those principles America "can and should lead the world." Combining those beliefs in a charismatic leader who presents himself as a symbol of America's unique moment could lead to dangerous temptations. Kennedy entering Vietnam, for example.

Obama's approach to foreign policy does not disqualify him for me, I think he is too cautious a politician to let things get too far out of hand. But I prefer Clinton's approach.


by souvarine on Tue May 27, 2008 at 04:07:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Neocon 'Father' (none / 0)

Neocons endorsing Democrats, silly you are for being joyful about this. It's actually quite gross.


by grlpatriot on Tue May 27, 2008 at 02:48:22 PM EST

Re: Neocon 'Father' (2.00 / 2)

Who was joyful?

Did you find the Richard Mellinscaffe endorsement of Hillary to be disgusting?

Or did you just laugh and say that Richard has seen the light?


http://www.truepat.org/
by CrushTheGOP2008 on Tue May 27, 2008 at 02:57:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Bzzt! Sorry (none / 0)

He's not a neocon any more -- hasn't been for a while -- which is why the title of this diary should be changed, lest it get exploited by the anti-Obama crowd.


Obama leads the popular vote too
by kellogg on Tue May 27, 2008 at 03:57:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Neocon 'Father' Francis Fukiyama Endorses Bara (none / 0)

A little history:

Along with Cheney, Wolfowitz, and Pentagon chief Donald Rumsfeld, Fukuyama was one of just two dozen PNAC charter members. He also signed a 1998 PNAC letter to then-President Bill Clinton urging him to "undertake military action" aimed at "removing Saddam Hussein and his regime from power."

Indeed, as late as Sept. 20, 2001, nine days after 9/11, he signed another PNAC letter to Bush that also called for Hussein's ouster "even if evidence does not link Iraq directly to the attack." Anything less, the letter argued, "will constitute an early and perhaps decisive surrender in the war on international terrorism."

Despite those hawkish antecedents, Fukuyama had second thoughts even before the Iraq invasion, particularly about the democratic messianism and unilateralism with which the "war on terror" was being conducted.

In a December 2002 Wall Street Journal article, he warned that "the idealist project" of transforming the region may "come to look more like empire pure and simple" and that "it is not at all clear that the American public understand that it is getting into an imperial project as opposed to a brief in-and-out intervention in Iraq."

But by late 2004, he was writing that anyone - particularly neoconservatives - who believed that the situation in Iraq would become sufficiently stable after elections in early 2005 for U.S. troops to begin withdrawing was "living in fantasyland."

And one year later, Fukuyama was already warning that failures in Iraq were paving the way for a return to U.S. isolationism. He believed that the Abu Ghraib prison scandal, coupled with Washington's failure to marshal international support for its efforts in Iraq and its incompetence in stabilizing the country, had largely destroyed its credibility as a "benevolent hegemon" to which the world, Kristol and Kagan confidently predicted, would willingly, if not eagerly, defer.

Fukuyama's latest article, "After Neoconservatism," is essentially an elaboration of these ideas in a more comprehensive form, as well as a plea for a more modest and classically "conservative" foreign policy that, without abandoning "the neoconservative belief in the universality of human rights," will also be conducted "without its illusions about the efficacy of American power and hegemony to bring these ends about."

I don't know if the diarist is genuinely surprised to see Fukuyama supporting a Democrat or if it's a bit of poetic license.  I think it would be funny to watch how the exact same people would react if Fukuyama had revealed that he supports Hillary.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Tue May 27, 2008 at 03:23:05 PM EST

This Obama supporter would be fine with that (none / 0)

since he's not a neoconservative any more.  M'Kay?


Obama leads the popular vote too
by kellogg on Tue May 27, 2008 at 03:58:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"After Neoconservativism" was 2006 (none / 0)

He goes further in renouncing neoconservativism in his 2007 book America at the Crossroads.  


Obama leads the popular vote too
by kellogg on Tue May 27, 2008 at 04:02:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No thanks (none / 0)

"If John McCain has lost Francis Fukuyama, who's next?  Richard Perle?  Richard Cheney?  
Change is coming.  And not a moment too soon."

No thanks, really.  I'd rather keep them in the Republican Party (a.k.a. the party of "ideas") as far away from my party as possible.


by Sieglinde on Tue May 27, 2008 at 03:49:43 PM EST

Re: Neocon 'Father' Francis Fukiyama Endorses Bara (none / 0)

Pretty amazing discussion going on here..
continue..I'm just taking notes..
(T/F..multiple choice..1 essay only)
"harlequin speech of suicide, demanding instantaneous lobotomy"
by nogo postal on Tue May 27, 2008 at 03:58:56 PM EST

He wants to dump the mess on Obama (none / 0)

So that later on the Repubs can point to his presidency as a failure.

They are afraid of Clinton getting in, because she can HANDLE the issues and will do a great job because she knows what she is doing. It would take away their talking point for the future, and she would actually get things like universal health care going, which would brand the Dems as good for working people for generations, as Social Security has.

Obama will NOT bring in universal health care. In fact, with his plan we will have more of the same for many more years, killing 20,000 and more every year from lack of basic health care.


by splashy on Tue May 27, 2008 at 04:24:12 PM EST

Re: Neocon (none / 0)

i wouldn't say that fukiyama has seen the light; but rather he has seen the most incompetent administration in american history bumbling the prosecution of his ideal and has to distance himself from them to try to cling to any semblance of credability whatsoever.


by citizendave on Tue May 27, 2008 at 04:27:53 PM EST

Re: Neocon 'Father' Francis Fukiyama Endorses Bara (none / 0)

It's great to see a substantive political discussion on MyDD that focuses  on ideas instead of petty insults.  Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread.


by markjay on Tue May 27, 2008 at 07:53:28 PM EST


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